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Offline wascallyrabbit

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Suspension Sag
« on: November 18, 2019, 04:04:56 PM »
I have a '16 factory low suspension with 50K miles now and I am bottoming out the front on a fairly regular bases. So I measured the static sag and its 44mm. That seems way crazy and to make things worse it 60 mm with me sitting on it. Cooperate is involved and may pick up the repair bill. Problem is that BMW hasn't stated any numbers for sag so its not as easy as see it out of spec. By industry standards its way out of spec but we can't use industry standards we have to use the none existing BMW standard. Dealer is covering his own ass saying that when he road it in dynamic mode (that what it was in) and under moderate braking couldn't get it to bottom, close though. He says its just wore out springs from mileage and use. I say he's crazy cause it was a rather sudden change when it happened.

My question to you all particularly the low suspension folks what is your static sag?

Offline falernia

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Re: Suspension Sag
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2019, 10:21:22 PM »
I too have a low suspension 2018 XR which I bought a few weeks ago. It has 5,000 miles on it. If you can tell me exactly how to measure suspension sag, I will happily take some measurements for you.

To be honest, I have been disappointed by the handling, especially the front suspension which bottoms out readily. I find the front floaty and a couple of friends, who are experienced riders, both reckon that something is not quite right. My local BMW dealer initially thought that something was wrong, but then compared it to their demonstrator and declared that they were similar. However, this was just a brief ride around their car park and they thought that it best if I book it in for a check. I have not done this yet.

I have been considering selling the bike, but will first let BMW take a detailed look. Alternatively, I am considering ditching the electronic suspension and replacing it with something like Maxton. Has anyone on here replaced the OEM suspension and was it successful and worth the expenditure?

Offline wascallyrabbit

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Re: Suspension Sag
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2019, 12:03:36 AM »
to measure static sag you need to lift the front wheel all the way off the ground to unweight the front. Then measure the distance between the fork and the assemble at the bottom of that holds the axle. With a low suspension it should be 120mm but the number may vary based on where you measured from. Second step is to balance the bike and repeat the measurement using the same to measurement points (probably going be around 100+mm again depends on where you measured from). Final step is to subtract the the two and this will be your static sag.

This will be easier to do with a assistant. The center stand works pretty well. Sitting on the pillion seat to unweight the front works well to. With the ESA you will need to have the ignition on to allow the suspension to move.

I have not removed the ESA and gone full manual set up. I have done research into it and nobody has manual stuff for a lower bike. You can go regular height suspension then use lowering links. For me it would be GP Suspension up front and Nitron rear shock. My dealer said they could code out the ESA stuff (so they think) but even if you don't it will only show codes that the suspension isn't functioning. They say it won't turn on the idiot light on the dash.

Offline SimonUK

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Re: Suspension Sag
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2019, 01:57:34 AM »
just for info, I replaced the DDC suspension on my S1000R with Ohlins, I got a big fat 'DDC!' and Orange triangle full time on the dash. The 'DDC!' replaced the engine temp display which was pretty irritating. I believe that there are dongles out there(DDC Delete for the RR, from Alpha Racing), but no idea if they work or not.

Being a rather well built lad, I found the D-ESA a little 'floaty', I have put the Tractive Fork insert up front and a Tractive shock at the rear (built for my specs), I also installed HyperPro stiffer front springs.  For ME, this setup is much better than stock and I keep the on the fly adjustability.

Offline wascallyrabbit

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Re: Suspension Sag
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2019, 02:29:48 AM »
This is good to know. First hand experience always trumps what the techs think.

I have not found anything for factory low suspension as far as new springs go. I have found plenty of option with or with the ddc for standard height bikes. At this point I will never buy another bike with the factory low suspension.

Offline Winger

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Re: Suspension Sag
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2019, 08:05:46 AM »
I can’t help with the low sus thing as I haven’t got one I bought a non ESA X/R although KTM GT that I have does have electric sus, for the non tech folk reading this and wondering what their front end is doing,fit a zip tie on a lower leg and at least you will see exactly how much travel you are using.

Offline falernia

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Re: Suspension Sag
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2019, 10:42:04 AM »
I've followed your instructions and the results are:
Static Sag 8mm (120 - 112mm)
Static Sag with Rider 53mm (120 - 67mm)

Both were done with the engine running and in Dynamic Mode. Putting it in Road Mode didn't seem to make much difference.

I hope that this helps.

Offline wascallyrabbit

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Re: Suspension Sag
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2019, 02:17:25 PM »
*Originally Posted by Winger [+]
I can’t help with the low sus thing as I haven’t got one I bought a non ESA X/R although KTM GT that I have does have electric sus, for the non tech folk reading this and wondering what their front end is doing,fit a zip tie on a lower leg and at least you will see exactly how much travel you are using.

Besides feeling the suspension bottom out I did this and I use 100% of my suspension even at moderate braking levels.

Offline wascallyrabbit

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Re: Suspension Sag
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2019, 02:29:17 PM »
*Originally Posted by falernia [+]
I've followed your instructions and the results are:
Static Sag 8mm (120 - 112mm)
Static Sag with Rider 53mm (120 - 67mm)

Both were done with the engine running and in Dynamic Mode. Putting it in Road Mode didn't seem to make much difference.

I hope that this helps.

Thanks. Your static no rider number is about where I would guess it was suppose to be. Mine was like 44mm.  Your sag with rider number indicates to me that you are in need of a much stiffer spring in the front. An ideal number for Sag with rider would be around 90mm. Unfortunately I've not found anyone that has different spring rates for the front of a low XR.  Cause it seems we both could use higher rate springs than the factory used.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 02:30:40 PM by wascallyrabbit »

Offline Winger

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Re: Suspension Sag
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2019, 04:30:13 PM »
*Originally Posted by wascallyrabbit [+]
Besides feeling the suspension bottom out I did this and I use 100% of my suspension even at moderate braking levels.

It’s a shame really because the people I hold responsible is not BMW but the FIM if they hadn’t banned electric suspension in WSB and MotoGP it would have come on in leaps and bounds by now instead it’s barely progressed in 10 years,WP have moved the game a little but there is still a long way to go.

In your situation i’d Give Ted Porter a ring at the Beemershop and see what he can come up with.

 



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