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Offline Markymark11

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Re: What would it take for you to do advanced training?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2020, 11:04:48 PM »
That was my bad - I chickened out with an honest answer - sorry

Offline barnsyuk

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Re: What would it take for you to do advanced training?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2020, 09:48:00 AM »
As a matter of personal preference, after many, many years of riding motorcycles and a few offs, and having never done any advanced motorcycle courses I decided to do the IAM training just to make sure, re-enforce that my riding was still up to scratch. Apart from having to wear a Hi-Viz during this exercise I found it be very useful. After two observed rides I was encouraged to take the IAM test and passed with a 1st, then asked to become an observer - which I'm still thinking about.

But the moral of this thread must be any advanced training is better than none at all.

But by my own admission I still ride like a twat on occasions :-)


Do I have a retirement plan, hell yes I plan to ride.

Offline brickit

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Re: What would it take for you to do advanced training?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2020, 10:49:48 AM »
*Originally Posted by barnsyuk [+]


But the moral of this thread must be any advanced training is better than none at all.
But by my own admission I still ride like a twat on occasions :-)


Think you have hit it on the head there.
I found that after the IAM traning, I had a better appreciation of roadcraft in general, but also the risks that come from both lapses in concentration and during periods of 'over-enthusiastic riding'.  :192:
Both of those traits will always be with me, but I have found that I now approach driving both cars and bike in a more structured and defensive way. Still lots of fun, but safer for everyone.

Offline Asw63632004

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Re: What would it take for you to do advanced training?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2020, 11:38:58 AM »
*Originally Posted by Mareng1 [+]
Quitting motorcycles and getting a Mazda MX5 will also enhance your chances of survival.
To ride for 42yrs and remain above ground - could be simply luck.  (or wearing his lucky underpants)  There will be numerous people who have also clocked up similar years, without any training.

But, you've summarised it correctly with: " it's a matter of personal preference".  :0461:

(Who is Mark?)

I sense a flurry of editing/deleting, so the above might not make so much sense :430:
I replied to Marks' post then saw he had deleted it. So I deleted mine as I thought it might cause confusion. I obviously didn't delete it quickly enough. :015:
I think there is an element of ' luck' in all aspects of life and anything that we can do to minimise the risk and enhance our 'luck ' is , as I say personal preference. I have done a bike safe course about 15 years ago . Just because I wanted to. I found it very helpful. I've also had days out with mates who are AIM assessors and also some mates who are ex police motor cyclists and asked them to be brutally honest about my riding skills, or lack of !  I've always managed to keep it shiny side so far  :152:
Andy

Offline Markymark11

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Re: What would it take for you to do advanced training?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2020, 01:35:53 PM »
Sorry Andy - my bad   :002:

Offline Gazk

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Re: What would it take for you to do advanced training?
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2020, 03:09:22 PM »
Here’s the thing one advanced training Club is much like another, yep IAM and ROSPA of which I’ve done both and car stuff meh, it's all great if you want to hang about with some quick is riders that are safe and can walk and talk the talk, but if your Joe Blogs and you don’t what all the Club \ political stuff that always comes with any club.

What do you do?

I know that Bennetts insurance do a rewards and this year they are doing advanced training, which may not be the reason to go to them but if you’re with them may be worth a look.

Some ATB’s (‘approved training body) do advanced training as well and to be fair they are as good at ROSPA and IAM you just pay for the days training as they are DVSA checked but some insurance companies don’t recognise the training God knows why “money is my guess” .

For me it just help’s keeps the insurance that bit cheaper and I’m never going to be too old to learn a new skills.

Two days’ aweek I teach CBT’s the first month was some of the hardest I’ve ever had to concentrate on my riding keeping eyes on to novice riders and tell them what to do and where to go meant lots of forward planning and thinking, a year later I have some super funny story’s and still love teaching.  That first month I think I learned as much about my riding as I educated the learners.

I know it’s sad to say but I love learning how to make the most out of the bike I have, yep for sure miles helps but knowledge is everything however you gain it.
After over thirty + years behind the bars, there's still lots to do and see.

Offline Markymark11

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Re: What would it take for you to do advanced training?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2020, 09:45:14 AM »
In answer to the original question of "why not more training" ...The problem I have is that I disagree with the way some trainers are teaching and some of the basics they teach. Mainly in road position. Firstly let me say my wife has recently passed her test after much training, she doesn't do grey very well, she is very much black or white. She was taught to ride a foot and a half approx - away from the kerb most of the time and to be on the outside (about a foot away from the white line) on left hand bends. She was also taught on motorways to stay in the left part of her lane. All of which she now does verbatim and all of which I disagree with - but I need to quantify my argument.

There is a "perfect" world and a "real world" and in the real world on pot holed, "gravelly" British roads in the south, then it is safer to take up a position approximately behind the car drivers seat most of the time. In my opinion.

This allows several things.
1. The car driver in front with a poorly adjusted mirror has more chance of seeing you.
2. You have somewhere to go in the event of an emergency stop by the car in front (or courier who suddenly spots the address he's after) , where you may not be able to stop in time, but by being in the outer part of the lane you have a chance to swerve round.
4. You are away from deer, foxes, rabbits etc. By being nearer the middle of the road you have a longer thinking time against animals coming onto the road.
3. Because of the "think bike" campaign in the UK - a lot of car drivers now move over as far left as they can whenever they see a bike behind them. This puts their wheels in the gravelly kerb, full of crap which kicks it up into your face. You can't stop them doing it, so you either slow right down or move out further into the lane. Alternatively you overtake whether it's safe or not because you now have a peer pressure to do so. You can't stop car drivers doing this now, and it's a whole separate subject not cured by your road position but it does stop you getting the initial gravel blast. (yesterday an old man did this to me to the point that we both slowed to a stop, I drew up beside his window and asked what he was doing and he said "I am helping you to overtake" - he didn't care about my reply of "what if it wasn't safe to overtake there" and "I am happy to make my own decisions")
5. On motorways if you are in lane 1 or 2 you should be in the outer part of the lane - again to allow swerving in an emergency. In lane 3, the inner part of the lane same reason.

Now I fully expect backlash from my comments and you will all say that if you are riding slow enough you can stop in an emergency and you should never be following a car too close etc etc  and I TOTALLY agree, but in the "real world" why not teach some extra common sense that someone like my wife can understand. Why not stress that the road position taught is not necessarily correct for the real world all the time.

I must also say that having never had any training all my views may be wrong, and initial training and further training may be completely different, but this is why in my original post I called myself "arrogant" and I didn't want anyone to "mess with my head" as I am confident (not overconfident) and I don't want doubt creeping in as that is the worst thing possible on a bike.

I withdrew my initial reply because I have adopted this way of riding for 42 years and it has stood me well. I called myself arrogant and took the view that I might know better than some "trained" instructor as appose to someone with experience, and rather than have the backlash I withdrew my post. ( I must also stress that I do not consider myself the fastest, safest, or best rider at all, just my own experience gained from years of road , track and offroad)

Open floodgates .. :008:
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 09:51:45 AM by Markymark11 »

Offline Asw63632004

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Re: What would it take for you to do advanced training?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2020, 10:04:47 AM »
I totally agree.
When I have been out with an AIM instructor I know , he has always stuck to the mantra of 'be as close to the left on a right hand bend and vice versa.' Right up until the moment in Spain when he touched a white line on the edge and ended up in a ditch.
I've always liked to allow myself a bit of 'wriggle room' in case I need to alter my position for some reason- pot holes being a good example.
I also agree about car drivers pulling over to let you pass. It's fine when there is not a queue of cars , even though we can get past no problem any way.. I always give them a wave of thanks. When in a queue, they only need to drop back slightly from the car in front to allow us to get past. Unless the car driver in front is a biker it doesn't happen very often.
As long as we all enjoying our biking then that's enough reason for me to keep going. Cheers :821: Andy
Andy

Offline bobdave

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Re: What would it take for you to do advanced training?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2020, 12:11:22 PM »
When I did my IAM training and test (2013) I was observed by several observers within the club before opting to stick with the one who I did most of my 'training' with. From that experience I soon realised there were observers/trainers who are completely driven by a book of rules and those who are a lot more real who apply common sense and a bit of fun to the whole process - I'm sure you can guess which I chose!
The worst stickler for following the book of rules was critical if I put my left foot down when stopping at junctions etc even though I pointed out that drain covers or pot holes etc where my right foot would go down create a potential hazard which could cause me to slip and ultimately drop the bike - his view the police way of advanced riding was to put the right foot down as it was more sympathetic to the engine (really???). BTW, I still chose which foot to put down dependent upon the conditions at the time.
The guy I chose made the whole process much more enjoyable whilst still sharing his skills and knowledge to add or adapt to my own 30+ years of riding and he was happy to pick up a tip or two from me. I remember one day I got on my motorcycle from the opposite side to normal (the foot brake side) when we had parked up and some-one then parked a bit close to me on the normal side. My observer commented that he never did that but that it was something he should remember and use where appropriate.
I have to admit I don't spend much time riding with the IAM group now as there seems to be more of them who harbour an 'I know better than you' attitude which takes some of the fun away. That said, I'm glad I did it as it refocused me and gave me many hours of fun riding on roads that I never knew existed.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 12:15:25 PM by bobdave »

Offline 1Scr4tch3r0

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Re: What would it take for you to do advanced training?
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2020, 10:03:24 PM »
I’ve often thought about extra training. I’m relatively new to biking and would certainly benefit. A mate recently did IAM and his riding is excellent now. So what stops me?? TIME.  I simply cannot commit to the same time every week and would need huge flexibility from my observer to be able to complete the course. Different days, different time is the only way I could do it. Not sure that’s possible.

 



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