Author Suspension for over 100kg Riders...  (Read 2732 times)

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  • Offline LeDuke   cy

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    Offline LeDuke

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    Suspension for over 100kg Riders...
    on: November 08, 2021, 06:06:36 pm
    November 08, 2021, 06:06:36 pm
    Hello All,

    This post is specifically referring to the MY 2020 XR and newer bikes.
    Before opening this topic, I have searched through all the previous threads and posts to try and get answers. I feel that there is no definitive answer for this issue anywhere.
    My problem, just like alot of others here have mentioned; is the lack of adjustability that we have if we do not fall into the pre-subscribed weight range of OEM springs (front, rear or both). Which I believe to be up to a MAX of around 85kg.

    I am around 110kg with full gear. Yes, I'm a fat basta*d who ate all the pies.

    Firstly, I cannot even bother using my suspension mode in Road mode. It wallows and dives like the suspension is made from vats of treacle.
    In Dynamic suspension, it is only rideable if the road is silky smooth. Like others have also mentioned.

    My opinion is that the bike is under sprung and over damped.

    I have been in so many situations where I am canyon carving at decent speeds and arrive at an undulating patch of road that has a dip or a rise and the rear compresses alot then throws me out of my seat on rebound. As basically the spring cannot handle my weight and the speed I'm riding at. I am almost always washing out on corners. I can give you many more examples but Im not going to write an exhaustive list here. Im sure those that understand, understand.

    Now, my knowledge dictates that all i need to do is buy heavier front forks springs and rear spring to handle my weight and job done.

    But why is it I see no one doing this with the ESA bikes?
    Almost everyone that decides to keep the bike (and has these issues) goes for tractive, Andreani, Wilburs, Nitron etc....
    Is there anything I am missing as to why I shouldnt put springs suited to my weight? Is there an issue somewhere with the ESA and auto preloading feature the bike has? Or anything I am not getting?

    Any feedback/opinions are welcome. Smithy, your classic two word sarcasm answers are just as welcome  :007:

  • Offline smithy   au

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    Re: Suspension for over 100kg Riders...
    Reply #1 on: November 08, 2021, 07:23:04 pm
    November 08, 2021, 07:23:04 pm
    Me..?? Sarcastic..?? Never. :015:

    When I first bought my '17 model I was in excess of 110kg without riding gear, ( I must have been the other fat basta*d eating all the pies you missed :027:), and never noticed the suspension being poor...in fact I though it was exceptional compared to my old 2010 VFR1200.

    I'm now down to just a tad under 80kg and still find the stock suspension system more than adequate for my limited riding talent. I'm no knee dragger but I do like to get a move on occasionally.

    Smithy.
    Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 07:26:45 pm by smithy
    When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather....not screaming like the passengers in his car..!

  • Offline runnerhiker   us

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    Re: Suspension for over 100kg Riders...
    Reply #2 on: November 08, 2021, 07:27:49 pm
    November 08, 2021, 07:27:49 pm
    I have a 2019 Gen 1 so my ESA is older and different.  But I think you need to research forums and the owners manual for spring preload, not dampening.

    On my Gen 1, spring preload is labeled: 1 rider, 1 rider + luggage, 2 riders, and 2 riders + luggage.  I think the Gen 2 is not like that, it might be automatic.  But if you were on a Gen 1, you would set the spring preload to 2 riders + luggage.  Look at the index of the owners manual for spring preload.
    '19 S1000XR
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  • Online wessie   gb

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    Re: Suspension for over 100kg Riders...
    Reply #3 on: November 08, 2021, 07:29:22 pm
    November 08, 2021, 07:29:22 pm
    *Originally Posted by smithy [+]
    Me..?? Sarcastic..?? Never. :015:

    When I first bought my '17 model I was in excess of 110kg without riding gear, ( I must have been eating all the pies you missed :027:), and never noticed the suspension being poor...in fact I though it was exceptional compared to my old 2010 VFR1200.

    I'm now down to just a tad under 80kg and still find the stock suspension system more than adequate for my limited riding talent. I'm no knee dragger but I do like to get a move on occasionally.

    Smithy.

    does the 2020 XR have the auto-levelling preload? I'm not a fan of this on the more recent boxers.

    Like you, I find the Gen1 ESA to be fine and I am a similar mass to the OP. I manually adjust the preload for most riding to rider plus luggage or 2 riders when I have luggage.

    With the auto-levelling preload I found the GS Rallye I rode as a dealer loan bike could not decide where it wanted the setting when riding on a rough surface so you wallowed along. I figured out how to manually over-ride the auto-level and the ride was more settled.

  • Offline runnerhiker   us

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    Re: Suspension for over 100kg Riders...
    Reply #4 on: November 08, 2021, 07:34:42 pm
    November 08, 2021, 07:34:42 pm
    *Originally Posted by wessie [+]
    I figured out how to manually over-ride the auto-level and the ride was more settled.

    This is it!
    '19 S1000XR
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  • Offline LeDuke   cy

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    Offline LeDuke

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    Re: Suspension for over 100kg Riders...
    Reply #5 on: November 08, 2021, 07:37:15 pm
    November 08, 2021, 07:37:15 pm
    On the New XR you cannot adjust the preload. Its completely automatic.
    Anyone tried heavier springs on the newer model with ESA? Any issues?

  • Offline Salem   nl

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    Re: Suspension for over 100kg Riders...
    Reply #6 on: November 08, 2021, 08:56:04 pm
    November 08, 2021, 08:56:04 pm
    I don't have my bike to look at, but think that if you could fabricate an adjustable pushrod (number 2 on the drawing) for the level sensor on the gen 2 that would work for at least the rear. By making it longer the elecronics think the rear is too low and will increase the preload. That could be a simple modification using a M6 or M8 threaded rod giving a manual adjustability
    Edit the rear would go up and the LED front lights would be aimed a bit lower

    Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 09:03:21 pm by Salem

  • Offline Antares   gb

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    Re: Suspension for over 100kg Riders...
    Reply #7 on: November 08, 2021, 09:07:46 pm
    November 08, 2021, 09:07:46 pm
    I have found the Gen 2 to be much softer than the Gen 1 all around. Gen 2 max preload still softer than Gen 1 in softest. There is nothing stopping you from messing with the springs and their preload in the RIGHT fork. In fact I've been  trying to fit an S1000R and RR preload cap on my XR so I have preload adjustment for the front in the right fork leg. It should work. I'd be wary of changing the springs in the left fork because frankly I'm not entirely sure how fragile the DDA unit is. That said the R and RR and XR all run different springs whilst the INTERNALS are the same, apart from length differences on the damping rod and spacers.




    (Gen 1 RR and XR spacers and caps)

    The Gen 2 is more or less the same in this regard just has different fork caps. Therefore I think this is a viable route. The only major consideration with the preload adjustor is that the XR springs are progressive whereas the RR is linear, but then again many of the drop in "upgrades" are also linear for the XR and vice versa for the RR.


    *Originally Posted by LeDuke [+]
    On the New XR you cannot adjust the preload. Its completely automatic.
    Anyone tried heavier springs on the newer model with ESA? Any issues?

    This is not necessarily true, Gen 2 has the same Min and Max settings that refer to 1 rider and 2 rider + luggage on the Gen 1, only difference is in Auto, it'll find the appropriate preload between those 2 extremes.


  • Online Winger   gb

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    Re: Suspension for over 100kg Riders...
    Reply #8 on: November 08, 2021, 10:21:51 pm
    November 08, 2021, 10:21:51 pm
    Blimey...where on earth do we start...

    Looked at ESA in 2016 and came to the conclusion with stock production suspension which is always rubbish you had 2 crap settings instead of one, but as the average punter doesn’t know a shock spring from a bed spring manufacturers thought what the hell, at least they had two choices, having been the aftermarket sus route for over 35 years ordered a non ESA, as soon as it arrived fitted a Wilbers on the rear, took a few weeks adjusting from front and rear and not touched it in years for either one up or two riding

    That’s the good news...in 19 I bought a KTMGT same old crap production suspension, and currently the situation is grin and bare it, and i’ll Wait till some aftermarket supplier comes up with a dongle for either end to shut the electrics up and I can strip it off.

    I see various quotes about changing springs....but how are they going to be controlled??? Without access to preload/compression/rebound adjustment you have no chance, you will just end up with a pogo stick.

    Looking at the OP’s post i’d Say just the rear shock if he went aftermarket would be 2 maybe 3 springs up from a stock option and then internally that would involve re-valving to control it, because other wise the shock will be working overtime and get all hot and bothered.

    For the guy in the street who doesn’t care, electric is fine but for the connoisseur or heavy weight folk it’s never going to be the solution, short of a big bucks adjustable shock that can be resprung and a bill to go with it which most customers will refuse to pay

    If there is any light at the end of tunnel....Electric Ohlins on the 2022 Multistrada?????? But even then the weight range will be limited.

    Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 10:28:04 pm by Winger

  • Offline PapaDac   gb

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    Offline PapaDac

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    Re: Suspension for over 100kg Riders...
    Reply #9 on: November 09, 2021, 03:16:33 am
    November 09, 2021, 03:16:33 am
    I have a 2020 model, I'm 95kg and never really got on with the stock suspension. Road mode was way to soft with lots of wallowing and sport mode didn't wallow but I would get bumped out of the seat quite regularly.

    I looked for a solution, there was nothing off the self from any of the usual suspects.
    In the end I went to Maxton Engineering, completely ditched the fork internals and whole new conventional rear shock. Not a cheap solution but it handles and rides bloody amazing, you can adjust everything but as they built it to my weight, riding style etc, it only needed three clicks increase of front compression damping.

    I've now clocked up over 5K miles with the new set up, all solo but with and without loads of gear, only needed to increase rear preload to match the original ride height a 2 min job. I would never go back!!

    From talking with them, I learned that changing the springs alone, would not really solve the problem as the damping and springs need to be correctly matched. They do all sorts of bikes but as a general statement, the main issue with electronic assisted damping, irrespective of brand is that it is reactive, so its always responding after the event to change the damping.

    Also all BSB bikes ditch the electronic suspension, as even on a race track, which covers the the same road lap after lap, its impossible to dial in the suspension, as it reacts differently to each situation on different laps. Whilst, we're not looking to go racing on the road (at least I'm not), its the unpredictability of the suspension that I just couldn't get on with.