Yuasa YTZ12S battery fitment

[Loz]

Hi, looking for a new battery 2019 XR. Looking at a Yuasa YTZ12S. Anyone fitted one of these and does it fit the battery box without any gaps and needing spacers and does the original clamp still fit.
Not looking for a Lithium as I dont want the cost of a new charger as well. Thanks for any info.

[smithy]

Originally Posted by Loz

Hi, looking for a new battery 2019 XR. Looking at a Yuasa YTZ12S. Anyone fitted one of these and does it fit the battery box without any gaps and needing spacers and does the original clamp still fit.
Not looking for a Lithium as I dont want the cost of a new charger as well. Thanks for any info.

You don't need a new charger for modern motorcycle Lithium batteries...they have internal circuitry to allow charging with normal pb chargers....if they didn't...how would they work in your bike?? Your bike was designed to charge a pb battery and you can drop a Lithium battery into it with no changes...and it will work fine. Many of us have had Lithium batteries in our bikes for years with no issues.

I use several motorcycle lithium batteries in my turbine powered go-kart and charge them with a pb charger....have done for many years with no problems...and still using them today.

Smithy.

[Mareng1]

Just to make sure that the difference between a CHARGER and a TENDER/CONDITIONER is highlighted:

A straight charger is fine for a lithium battery, but a battery tender (optimate etc) is not suitable.

Most people are interested in battery tenders.

 

[wessie]

Originally Posted by Mareng1

Just to make sure that the difference between a CHARGER and a TENDER/CONDITIONER is highlighted:

A straight charger is fine for a lithium battery, but a battery tender (optimate etc) is not suitable.

Most people are interested in battery tenders.

 

with the caveat that many newer battery tenders are suitable for lithium e.g. the Noco chargers sold in Halfords and elsewhere.

the risk to the lithium battery (and for that matter a bike's ECU) is that an older battery tender might go into recovery mode and fry the electronics in the lithium battery or ECU. As ever, read the instructions before using a particular charger on any battery, taking into account whether the battery is connected to a vehicle when charging. Most recent chargers will only go into recovery mode if the battery is not connected to a bike as they can sense the load on the battery, but do not take this for granted, check the manual. If you have a lithium battery then you need a charger that can sense the electronics in the battery so that it does not stick high voltage pulses up its arse.

If you have a totally dead battery that you want to recover, always take it off the vehicle then your charger can throw all of its tricks at the battery. Many a good battery has been thrown away as "the Optimate didn't recover it" as it was just flat but was left on the bike so recovery mode could not be used.

[capt cf]

I put a Deka ETX9 (AGM) in my '18 in April.  It was only $70 at my local big box store (Lowe's) and is a drop in replacement for the BMW (same manufacturer and battery if memory serves, but not BMW branded).  On the lithium thing, my '21 is the first bike I have owned with a lithium battery (M battery) and I was a little spooked about it.  I have like 5 battery tenders and 3 of them have both an AGM/flooded mode and a lithium mode, but I still chickened out and bought the Optimate dedicated lithium tender.  I was too afraid muscle memory would kick in and I would forget to hit the button to switch from AGM/flooded after years and years of everything else (bikes, cars, mowers, etc.) all not being lithium.  I think it was $80 or so.  I figured it was a small price to pay for insurance in the likely event that I would hamfist it and hook it up wrong.

[Salem]

The problem is that Li-ion batteries have a maximum optimum cell voltage of 3.6V. Times 4 cells that's 14.4V. Over voltage is at 3.8V/cell, 15.2V total. Our standard rectifiers deliver 14.6V or so, a bit too much. If you have a Li-Ion battery with BMS (Shido for example), the BMS might cut off the battery on voltage spikes. The rectifier then reacts a little too late, you get voltage spikes beyond 16V, and that has triggered errors on BMW's (over voltage error)

One way to deal with it is to buy a dedicated Li-Ion Mosfet rectifier, but expensive. I'm not into electronics but would think a ''small' capacitor would work well to capture any spikes and avoid problems. Here's a list of 16V capacitors with screw on terminals (easy install), up to 20% extra, so 19.2V max. Around PDS 30 for the smallest each +shipping. I'm thinking about doing this with a Shido

https://uk.farnell.com/w/c/passive-components/capacitors/aluminium-electrolytic-capacitors/snap-in-screw-terminal-aluminium-electrolytic-capacitors?voltage-dc-=16v&capacitor-terminals=screw

[Winger]

When the OP did his post had a chuckle to myself cuz if you are ever looking for someone living in a time warp always head for a biker 😀

Battery died a death on my Yamaha 07 XT660X in 2000, bought a lithium battery for it and it still works perfectly to this day...yea it’s 12 years old.

Ran a monster sized PC680 battery on my BMW 1100s which I bought in 2000 and replaced the PC with a lithium in 20004 it’s still on the bike and runs fine.

I run the X/R, KTM GT, BMW K1200R Sport all with lithium, the KTM is the youngest it’s only 3 years old the other two are 4/5 years old and run well to this day.

Decided right from the get-go to go with a solus Optimate lithium charger and they have worked perfect.

Now......there has been one glitch the R/R on my 955 Tiger bit the dust, so I ordered a replacement from Electrex World i’d Been running a lithium battery on the bike for some years, fitted the new replacement and the bike spat it’s dummy out with a flat battery, phoned up the company up much ummming and rrrring and 10 minutes later their website said not suitable for lithium, found another R/R supplier it’s still on till this day, but the bottom line I’ve never had a problem with an OE regulator rectifier on any of the bikes.

[smithy]

Originally Posted by Salem

The problem is that Li-ion batteries have a maximum optimum cell voltage of 3.6V. Times 4 cells that's 14.4V. Over voltage is at 3.8V/cell, 15.2V total. Our standard rectifiers deliver 14.6V or so, a bit too much. If you have a Li-Ion battery with BMS (Shido for example), the BMS might cut off the battery on voltage spikes. The rectifier then reacts a little too late, you get voltage spikes beyond 16V, and that has triggered errors on BMW's (over voltage error)

I have a voltmeter on my '17 XR and it is always sitting at 14.7-14.8v with the engine running, (have never seen it any higher than this and have never seen an "overvoltage error"), engine off the battery sits at 13.2-13.3v....has been like this since I fitted the SSB Lithium battery in early 2017, never had an issue with it. I have not long ago fitted the same type SSB battery to my 2019 Suzuki M109R, again no issues and it turns that big "891.5cc per pot" engine over like it's a sewing machine, not an easy task....I have several other SSB batteries in series on a go-kart and running a 24v electric motor which in turn runs a couple of high pressure, (up to 3000psi), fuel pumps.... and they all work fine with a normal pb charger....have done for years. If it were an issue, the batteries wouldn't last long at all.

In the end, modern Lithium motorcycle batteries don't have an issue on normal motorcycles, it's as simple as that.

Smithy. 

[Salem]

Originally Posted by smithy

I have a voltmeter.

That's the problem. I have two too, one a fairly expensive Fluke. A voltmeter is ways too slow to measure spikes. You need an (expensive) scope. Look at the sites of those offering dedicated Mosfet regulators and see the spikes

[smithy]

Originally Posted by capt cf

On the lithium thing, my '21 is the first bike I have owned with a lithium battery (M battery) and I was a little spooked about it.  I have like 5 battery tenders and 3 of them have both an AGM/flooded mode and a lithium mode, but I still chickened out and bought the Optimate dedicated lithium tender.  I was too afraid muscle memory would kick in and I would forget to hit the button to switch from AGM/flooded after years and years of everything else (bikes, cars, mowers, etc.) all not being lithium.  I think it was $80 or so.  I figured it was a small price to pay for insurance in the likely event that I would hamfist it and hook it up wrong.

Your '21 M is essentially identical to the "non-M" machines as far as the charging system goes....so whether it has a normal or Lithium battery is irrelevant, both will work fine.

Smithy.