Author Crossing Double White Lines  (Read 4148 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • Offline norskman   gb

    • XR Pro  ‐    101
    • ***
    • Topic Author

    Offline norskman

    • XR Pro
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 101
    • Bike: BMW S1000XR Red
    • Town: London, UK
    • Country: gb
    Crossing Double White Lines
    on: July 14, 2023, 11:28:02 am
    July 14, 2023, 11:28:02 am
    Is it legal to cross double white lines (Uusally no overtaking) when the traffic is either stopped or moving at snails pace - say l5mph or less

    AND

    There is a clear space in front of the slow-moving traffic

    AND

    You can clearly see far enough ahead.

    The highway code Rule 129 is not clear in this example.

    I would like to know if there are any authoritive people reading this. Right now, I have always assumed a NO to overtaking in my example.

  • Offline Antares   gb

    • XR God  ‐    2020
    • *****
      #1

    Offline Antares

    • XR God
    • *****
    • Posts: 2020
    • Bike: 2015 XR Sport SE
    • Town: Staines/Kirklees
    • Country: gb
    Re: Crossing Double White Lines
    Reply #1 on: July 14, 2023, 11:35:35 am
    July 14, 2023, 11:35:35 am
    As far as I'm aware crossing them in any way except to go around stationary obstacles or very slow moving vehicles is illegal, however, overtaking inside them is legal, as long as you don't cross the lines, provided you can fit past the vehicle, which as motorcyclists we probably can in some situations on wider roads.

  • Offline af1-windy   gb

    • XR Master  ‐    701
    • ****
      #2

    Offline af1-windy

    • XR Master
    • ****
    • Posts: 701
    • Bike: s1000xr
    • Town: Leeds
    • Country: gb
    Re: Crossing Double White Lines
    Reply #2 on: July 14, 2023, 11:57:23 am
    July 14, 2023, 11:57:23 am
    Rule 129
    Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.

    Best to just be patient, there's always another bend ahead and clear road. Better waiting for that than waiting for the return of your licence..  :164:
    "When I’m riding my motorcycle, I’m glad to be alive. When I stop riding my motorcycle, I’m glad to be alive" Neil Peart.

  • Offline norskman   gb

    • XR Pro  ‐    101
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • #3

    Offline norskman

    • XR Pro
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 101
    • Bike: BMW S1000XR Red
    • Town: London, UK
    • Country: gb
    Re: Crossing Double White Lines
    Reply #3 on: July 14, 2023, 12:00:48 pm
    July 14, 2023, 12:00:48 pm
    your response is what I have been doing too.

    But Rule 129 of the highway code is not totally clear as to the definition of stationary traffic.

    If the traffic is stationary but there is a clear gap ahead ie you dont make a driver slam on the brakes to avoid hitting the bike moving into that space and you can see ahead as well, after all the Double white lines are there for a purpose, and you are not moving quickly, then i am not so sure.

    We need either a traffic lawyer or traffic police person to advise.


  • Offline af1-windy   gb

    • XR Master  ‐    701
    • ****
      #4

    Offline af1-windy

    • XR Master
    • ****
    • Posts: 701
    • Bike: s1000xr
    • Town: Leeds
    • Country: gb
    Re: Crossing Double White Lines
    Reply #4 on: July 14, 2023, 12:08:39 pm
    July 14, 2023, 12:08:39 pm
    *Originally Posted by norskman [+]

    We need either a traffic lawyer or traffic police person to advise.

    Even if one or the other confirmed it could be done under certain circumstances, I still wouldn't risk it, all you need is a traffic cop having a bad day and they'll find something to hit you with, careless or dangerous driving, in their opinion.

    On the flip side, my younger brother was the one to get a fine for parking half on the pavement half in the road, forcing overtaking cars to cross a solid line..  :084: :027:
    "When I’m riding my motorcycle, I’m glad to be alive. When I stop riding my motorcycle, I’m glad to be alive" Neil Peart.

  • Offline norskman   gb

    • XR Pro  ‐    101
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • #5

    Offline norskman

    • XR Pro
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 101
    • Bike: BMW S1000XR Red
    • Town: London, UK
    • Country: gb
    Re: Crossing Double White Lines
    Reply #5 on: July 14, 2023, 12:13:23 pm
    July 14, 2023, 12:13:23 pm
    TOTALLY TOTALLY agree with that remark.

    Ie a discretionary offence.......

    Next time I meet a friendly traffic bike cop I am going to ask them for their opinion.




  • Offline af1-windy   gb

    • XR Master  ‐    701
    • ****
      #6

    Offline af1-windy

    • XR Master
    • ****
    • Posts: 701
    • Bike: s1000xr
    • Town: Leeds
    • Country: gb
    Re: Crossing Double White Lines
    Reply #6 on: July 14, 2023, 12:18:14 pm
    July 14, 2023, 12:18:14 pm
    *Originally Posted by norskman [+]
    a friendly traffic bike cop

     :008: :008: :008: :745:.. let me know when that happens, unless you're in France..  :001:
    "When I’m riding my motorcycle, I’m glad to be alive. When I stop riding my motorcycle, I’m glad to be alive" Neil Peart.

  • Online wessie   gb

    • XR Master  ‐    766
    • ****
      #7

    Online wessie

    • XR Master
    • ****
    • Posts: 766
    • Bike: 2016 XR SE Sport
    • Town: Cheltenham
    • Country: gb
    Re: Crossing Double White Lines
    Reply #7 on: July 14, 2023, 12:34:50 pm
    July 14, 2023, 12:34:50 pm
    I really do not think there is any ambiguity in the meaning of stationary vehicle.

    The situation as to whether an offence is committed is down to the interpretation of a police officer based on their personal observation, or increasingly, dashcams from helpful citizens. I doubt you will get a consistent decision in every similar occurrence.

    Filter to the front of a temporary traffic light queue and pull into a gap at the front and you will be fine if you do not hinder oncoming traffic. Filter to the front of the queue and cause oncoming traffic to be hindered or have to squeeze into a marginal gap then this could be driving without due care and attention.

    In the UK, each case has to be assessed on the risk taken. You will find in other countries, there is no leeway. Cross a solid line or even use a turn left lane to queue jump can result in a fine as the offence is absolute. I have known these to have been levied in Lienz, Austria (using left filter lane 15 euros in 1999) and Zernez in  Switzerland (overtaking an unmarked police car over a solid white, 600CHF). Fortunately, it was others in my touring group not me!

  • Offline mjojom   gb

    • XR Pro  ‐    118
    • ***
      #8

    Offline mjojom

    • XR Pro
    • ***
    • Posts: 118
    • Bike: s1000xr
    • Country: gb
    Re: Crossing Double White Lines
    Reply #8 on: July 14, 2023, 02:09:47 pm
    July 14, 2023, 02:09:47 pm
    well, the explanation on the topic at one of the speed awareness courses was.
    you must not cross double-solid lines not with wheels or even handlebars unless traffic is stationary or moving under 10mph. However, as previously mentioned this is up to the mood of the traffic officer that pulled you over. So it will never be the same interpretation as mentioned above.

    And as again mentioned, this is a big NO-NO in Europe. Actually crossing a single solid is illegal unless the conditions above apply. Crossing double solid is simply a NO. and on traffic lights, if you have a solid line about 10 meters from the junction,  once you get to the particular turning lane, you cannot change.

    I believe in London, crossing double solid lines is more tolerated due to the amount of stationary traffic, even biker cops are doing it.

  • Offline bobdave   gb

    • XR Pro  ‐    319
    • ***
      #9

    Offline bobdave

    • XR Pro
    • ***
    • Posts: 319
    • Bike: BMW S100XR
    • Town: Bournemouth
    • Country: gb
    Re: Crossing Double White Lines
    Reply #9 on: July 14, 2023, 03:26:19 pm
    July 14, 2023, 03:26:19 pm
    *Originally Posted by mjojom [+]
    well, the explanation on the topic at one of the speed awareness courses was.
    you must not cross double-solid lines not with wheels or even handlebars unless traffic is stationary or moving under 10mph. However, as previously mentioned this is up to the mood of the traffic officer that pulled you over. So it will never be the same interpretation as mentioned above.

    I was told by a fella running the speed awareness course I attended that it was illegal to filter. Of course I questioned that statement and asked him to show me the law that made it illegal. I did point out to him that if you did it too fast (10 to 15 mph faster than the traffic flow), crossing a solid white line, put yourself or another person in danger or in a way that any nearby policeman didn't like you would likely get done for a traffic offence like driving without due care and attention but you would not get done for filtering. Thankfully the second fella running the course knew the law and confirmed that I was correct but he did point out that I shouldn't upset the 1st fella too much as he had to sign off that I attended and participated the course !

     



    dysfunctional