Author Wallow wallow boing bounce bounce  (Read 1293 times)

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  • Offline CumbriaRob   gb

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    Offline CumbriaRob

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    Wallow wallow boing bounce bounce
    on: July 21, 2023, 04:36:01 pm
    July 21, 2023, 04:36:01 pm
    Hi Guys and Gals,

    I've had a good search through the threads but can find anything.

    2016 S1000XR ESA model with 18K on it.

    I've had the bike around 8 months and whereas I love the engine and the looks I'm concerned about the suspension. I weigh about 90/95 KG (depending the weekly intake of pies).

    I've ridden most types of bikes over 30 years of riding but never had such a bad consistent bounce.

    The bike bounces around corners when tapping on which can result in being pushed wide and can get a bit butt clenching. It is not really an issue when going slow (although it does still happen but being slow more time to react) but when tapping on over 70/80 and above around faster A/B road corners it wallows and bounces around really quite badly. I have played around with the modes (road/dynamic and dynamic pro) and also the preloads (single rider and rider with luggage modes) but nothing seems to change much at all in terms of bouncy bouncy! The bike does not feel planted at all unless the tarmac is babies bum smooth (if I can find any here in the UK.......smooth roads not babies bums!).

    Rebound damping is my guess (I also get a lip on the leading edge of the rear tyre tread when tapping on) but being ESA it's not manually adjustable is it? Any thoughts on remedies? Dropping the forks through the yokes a little (this will help turn in but not sure about bouncy) etc

    I don't want to go down the route of upgrading the fork internals or rear shock as just too expensive.

    Anyone had these feelings/issues and anyone with any remedies or fixes?  :112:

    Thanks in advance!




  • Offline Antares   gb

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    Re: Wallow wallow boing bounce bounce
    Reply #1 on: July 21, 2023, 05:53:37 pm
    July 21, 2023, 05:53:37 pm
    *Originally Posted by CumbriaRob [+]
    Hi Guys and Gals,

    I've had a good search through the threads but can find anything.

    2016 S1000XR ESA model with 18K on it.

    I've had the bike around 8 months and whereas I love the engine and the looks I'm concerned about the suspension. I weigh about 90/95 KG (depending the weekly intake of pies).

    I've ridden most types of bikes over 30 years of riding but never had such a bad consistent bounce.

    The bike bounces around corners when tapping on which can result in being pushed wide and can get a bit butt clenching. It is not really an issue when going slow (although it does still happen but being slow more time to react) but when tapping on over 70/80 and above around faster A/B road corners it wallows and bounces around really quite badly. I have played around with the modes (road/dynamic and dynamic pro) and also the preloads (single rider and rider with luggage modes) but nothing seems to change much at all in terms of bouncy bouncy! The bike does not feel planted at all unless the tarmac is babies bum smooth (if I can find any here in the UK.......smooth roads not babies bums!).

    Rebound damping is my guess (I also get a lip on the leading edge of the rear tyre tread when tapping on) but being ESA it's not manually adjustable is it? Any thoughts on remedies? Dropping the forks through the yokes a little (this will help turn in but not sure about bouncy) etc

    I don't want to go down the route of upgrading the fork internals or rear shock as just too expensive.

    Anyone had these feelings/issues and anyone with any remedies or fixes?  :112:

    Thanks in advance!

    Full height or lowered chassis?

    Here is what I did with my full height and it handled brilliantly, I'm about the same weight.

    Drop front a bit (10mm forks showing)

    Check steering head bearing (most important)

    Tyres...

    Next steps you can do:

    Check rear wheel alignment.

    Remove handguards.

    Windscreen - Barn doors especially in the upper position make a significant difference to stability.

    Aftermarket steering damper - Only masks the underlying handling issue but should help regardless.

    I always rode in 1 rider + luggage mode for my weight and that was just about right for me.

    Suspension is decent, not amazing, but decent, this is a geometry issue.

  • Offline CumbriaRob   gb

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    Offline CumbriaRob

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    Re: Wallow wallow boing bounce bounce
    Reply #2 on: July 21, 2023, 06:41:15 pm
    July 21, 2023, 06:41:15 pm
    Thanks Antares,

    Full height bike.

    Steering dampener fitted.

    New tyres.

    Certain it is not the screen as always have it in low position and its not that big anyway.

    Will check the head bearings, wheel alignment although just had new tyres fitted so dont think it is that and will drop the forks....hopefully this will help as it can be pretty dangerous when giving it some and hanging off.  :005: :005:

  • Offline LeftCoastKen   ca

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    Offline LeftCoastKen

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    Re: Wallow wallow boing bounce bounce
    Reply #3 on: July 21, 2023, 08:45:32 pm
    July 21, 2023, 08:45:32 pm
    Hi @CumbriaRob, I have 2016 ESA model as well and I am a similar body weight.  I have had it for 5 years and put over 60,000 km on it.  The only time that I have experienced uncomfortable wallow was due to nackered wheel bearings and sh*t tires.  When I am out for a spirited ride I have the preload set to 2up and the ESA set to Dynamic and bike is totally planted.  Out of curiosity, what tires do you currently have mounted?

  • Offline CumbriaRob   gb

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    Offline CumbriaRob

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    Re: Wallow wallow boing bounce bounce
    Reply #4 on: July 21, 2023, 10:22:06 pm
    July 21, 2023, 10:22:06 pm
    *Originally Posted by LeftCoastKen [+]
    Hi @CumbriaRob, I have 2016 ESA model as well and I am a similar body weight.  I have had it for 5 years and put over 60,000 km on it.  The only time that I have experienced uncomfortable wallow was due to nackered wheel bearings and sh*t tires.  When I am out for a spirited ride I have the preload set to 2up and the ESA set to Dynamic and bike is totally planted.  Out of curiosity, what tires do you currently have mounted?

    That's very interesting LeftCoastKen! I'll try the 2up setting but it does feel wrong being just one 1 to have to have the preload so high. Rebound is where I am leaning towards (wish there was some way I can play with the rebound) rather than preload but always open to being wrong for a good planted feeling. Ive got Pirelli Angel GT's on. This is the second pair I've had and IMO they do well as long as they are nice a warm. Slight movement when cold if hitting the edge hardish but nothing that cant be worked around (take a mile or so to get up to temp).

    Bike away for a service and fork seals at the mo' but when I get it back I will defo give the 2Up settings a try. Interestingly I was at the Isle of Man TT earlier this year with my son and two up over the mountain (no speed limit) it never wallowed and felt bouncy (2 up setting obvs). The rear had some good graining and lips on the front edge of the tread after a good run over the mountain but no bounce and felt good (we were not hanging around at all!!!)

    BTW good going for 60K+ in 5 years.

    I only wish BM had left some way of adding rebound damping to the ESA.

    I'll try your 2up setting though.......still doesn't feel right but if it works who gives a..... :028:

    Last Edit: July 21, 2023, 10:23:26 pm by CumbriaRob

  • Offline Antares   gb

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    Re: Wallow wallow boing bounce bounce
    Reply #5 on: July 21, 2023, 10:29:03 pm
    July 21, 2023, 10:29:03 pm
    Try raising 2 up, if that fixes it, you can drop your forks because you know it's a weight distribution issue (2 up mode essentially jacks the rear end up)

    Re tyres:

    I've not had good experience with Angel GTs, when I got new Conti RA3s they were a bit wallowy at the start but that turned out to be the slightly loose steering head bearing. After a bit of wearing in though  they were on rails. Road 5s on the other hand were always the most stable and yet sporty of them all. I think it's because they are the most aggressive/tallest profile from the selection of sport touring tyres on the market atm.

  • Offline LeftCoastKen   ca

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    Re: Wallow wallow boing bounce bounce
    Reply #6 on: July 21, 2023, 10:41:17 pm
    July 21, 2023, 10:41:17 pm
    In regards to tires, my experience with the Pirellis and Contis were also not good.  The bike just felt sloppy when pushed hard.  I did not think I would find anything better than the Road 5s but I have just mounted my second set of Dunlop Mutants.  The Mutants are bar none, the best tires I have used.  From my point of view they are better than the Road 5s in all areas except life.  I can get 14k km out of a set of Road 5s and the first set of Mutants I got 12k km.  I'm interested to try the Road 6s next time but I don't think they would be much different than the 5s.

  • Offline Antares   gb

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    Re: Wallow wallow boing bounce bounce
    Reply #7 on: July 21, 2023, 10:43:21 pm
    July 21, 2023, 10:43:21 pm
    *Originally Posted by LeftCoastKen [+]
    In regards to tires, my experience with the Pirellis and Contis were also not good.  The bike just felt sloppy when pushed hard.  I did not think I would find anything better than the Road 5s but I have just mounted my second set of Dunlop Mutants.  The Mutants are bar none, the best tires I have used.  From my point of view they are better than the Road 5s in all areas except life.  I can get 14k km out of a set of Road 5s and the first set of Mutants I got 12k km.  I'm interested to try the Road 6s next time but I don't think they would be much different than the 5s.

    They are very different in the other way, the Road 6s are a lot more neutral and definitely flatter rear. More inline with the rest, but very good compound.

  • Offline Winger   gb

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    Re: Wallow wallow boing bounce bounce
    Reply #8 on: July 22, 2023, 06:58:13 am
    July 22, 2023, 06:58:13 am
    Even in 2016 ESA had all the attraction of a hole in the head,my experience of  my KTM GT since has confirmed my suspicions so can’t help,as for tyres have run Michelins on various bikes for some years,as it’s very rare I ever ride a bike anything but 2 up need all the help I can get, so run a Power RS on the front no matter what,think the latest are just called Power,as for the rear? If it’s out of UK then it’s 5,other wise it’s a Power on the rear as well.

  • Offline JTL   gb

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    Re: Wallow wallow boing bounce bounce
    Reply #9 on: August 11, 2023, 12:58:17 pm
    August 11, 2023, 12:58:17 pm
    The ESA shock could be knackered. They can fail around the 18K miles. T-Tech suspension can rebuild them.