Author Gen 1 countersteer  (Read 1041 times)

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  • Offline dickm   us

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    Offline dickm

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    Gen 1 countersteer
    on: December 04, 2023, 12:56:15 am
    December 04, 2023, 12:56:15 am
    My search skills are weak so I hope this isn't rehashing a common issue. Countersteering seems a little vague to the touch, as in too neutral. Thought I'd read that slighty lowering the tripleclamp solves this. Any advice on the amount? thanks in advance

  • Offline Salish1000   us

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    Re: Gen 1 countersteer
    Reply #1 on: December 04, 2023, 02:20:54 am
    December 04, 2023, 02:20:54 am
    I've had a lot of sporty bikes and have never noticed this with my Gen 1. It's true that lower the steering yoke, or exposing more fork tube above it, makes the bike more twitchy and less stable in line. Some do this because of lowered bikes too. But in that case they are lowering everything so it neutrals out. I'm curious what you are experiencing and what other bikes you've owned that you are comparing this to. When I am doing over 80 (today I was at 110mph), I find no trouble whatsoever in the bike responding to normal counter steering inputs.
    2016 XR with full Akra, 26,000 and counting.
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  • Offline dickm   us

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    Offline dickm

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    Re: Gen 1 countersteer
    Reply #2 on: December 04, 2023, 03:20:08 am
    December 04, 2023, 03:20:08 am
    Suzuki 1250 bandit had a light to moderate predictable push pull at speed. Gen 1 takes a VERY light touch  for steering input. Not all bad I'm kind of used to it now, maybe head tube angle is more upright. I'd just like alittle more input

  • Offline Salish1000   us

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    Re: Gen 1 countersteer
    Reply #3 on: December 04, 2023, 03:42:58 am
    December 04, 2023, 03:42:58 am
    I think you nailed it. Check the geometries of both bikes and I bet that it is your answer. The XR is a sport bike with upright ergos. I've never found mine unstable at high speeds, and I spend a fair amount of time over 90mph around here as we have a lot of rural forested roads where no one can hide. The XR is my first bike with a steering damper, and maybe that is why BMW put one on there as it is highly responsive. But I honestly don't find it much different from my memories of my Tracer 900 or Aprilia Caponord. The weighty Concours and FJR were ponderous in bulk but I still found them good town bikes.
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  • Offline Antares   gb

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    Re: Gen 1 countersteer
    Reply #4 on: December 04, 2023, 06:43:04 am
    December 04, 2023, 06:43:04 am
    *Originally Posted by dickm [+]
    Suzuki 1250 bandit had a light to moderate predictable push pull at speed. Gen 1 takes a VERY light touch  for steering input. Not all bad I'm kind of used to it now, maybe head tube angle is more upright. I'd just like alittle more input

    It's the extremely wide bars and high COG giving you HUGE leverage, your best shot could be to cut the bars shorter. You can remove about 1 inch from either side and still have enough space for all the switchgear and threads for the bar ends. To see if this works for you try grabbing the bars that much further in and see if it's closer to what you like.

    Apart from that, jacking up the rear or indeed dropping the front wont make the bike more stable in a straight line, but even easier to tip in, lowering the bike in equal measure front and rear actually still makes the bike sharper to handle because what matters in steering effort is trail. Where it can help, is make the rake steeper, which reduces wheel flop (the tendency of the steering to fall into a turn on it's own)

    There is some dynamics going on with rake angle affecting the steering effort curve but it's a small difference when compared to trail, and besides almost all road focused bikes have a rake of somewhere between 24-26°, more trail = bars want to center harder = harder to pull them off centre = more stable.

    Going either way can help but imo on the XR tyres make a big difference for one, and for 2 it's just something you have to deal with/get used as there isn't enough adjustment in the suspension in terms of geometry and ride height that you can completely dial this behaviour out.

    Such is the cost of making a 220kg bike handle better than a sport bike.

  • Offline dickm   us

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    Offline dickm

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    Re: Gen 1 countersteer
    Reply #5 on: December 04, 2023, 05:26:44 pm
    December 04, 2023, 05:26:44 pm
    Thanks for the wide bars comment. I think you nailed it. I've adjusted my subconscious to adapt to the lighter touch. I was thinking too much while chasing the really fast old geezers I ride with. Stability was never an issue. The bike is a wet dream to ride . It pulls so hard in Dynamic Pro I'm not sure I need all the mods to make it faster.

  • Offline smithy   au

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    Re: Gen 1 countersteer
    Reply #6 on: December 04, 2023, 06:51:17 pm
    December 04, 2023, 06:51:17 pm
    *Originally Posted by dickm [+]
    Thanks for the wide bars comment. I think you nailed it. I've adjusted my subconscious to adapt to the lighter touch. I was thinking too much while chasing the really fast old geezers I ride with. Stability was never an issue. The bike is a wet dream to ride . It pulls so hard in Dynamic Pro I'm not sure I need all the mods to make it faster.

    Dynamic Pro doesn't pull any harder than Dynamic or normal Road mode for that matter, (the throttle mapping is slightly different)....it just has less "nanny's" in "Dynamic Pro".

    Smithy.
    When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather....not screaming like the passengers in his car..!

  • Offline af1-windy   gb

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    Offline af1-windy

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    Re: Gen 1 countersteer
    Reply #7 on: December 05, 2023, 08:16:09 am
    December 05, 2023, 08:16:09 am
    *Originally Posted by dickm [+]
    Thanks for the wide bars comment. I think you nailed it. I've adjusted my subconscious to adapt to the lighter touch. I was thinking too much while chasing the really fast old geezers I ride with. Stability was never an issue. The bike is a wet dream to ride . It pulls so hard in Dynamic Pro I'm not sure I need all the mods to make it faster.

    https://www.s1000xr.uk/index.php/topic,7218.10.html

    I loved the narrow bars, a much more natural feeling. The xr is back to standard bars and is up for sale, the narrower bars are now fitted to my r1200rs..  :001:

     :821: windy
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  • Offline Salish1000   us

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    Re: Gen 1 countersteer
    Reply #8 on: December 05, 2023, 04:31:47 pm
    December 05, 2023, 04:31:47 pm
    It's wonderful to farkle our bikes however we want. It's one of the joys of motorcycles to me. I'm one who finds the stock handlebars just right. Never think twice about it, but I'm 6'2". It's my natural sit up and beg position and on 800 mile days I've had zero discomfort in my arms, wrists or hands. I use grip puppies too as I never like the stock grip thickness.
    2016 XR with full Akra, 26,000 and counting.
    We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.