BMW S1000XR

S1000XR Chat => Maintenance, Servicing, and Mechanical => Topic started by: norskman on June 14, 2019, 08:09:15 PM

Title: Cant find Neutral
Post by: norskman on June 14, 2019, 08:09:15 PM
My bike has just done 2200. Its a late 2018 model with blipper.

Now I cant find Neutral and first is difficult.

I guess the clutch cable has stretched, but after only 2200 miles??

H/ow do I adjust the  clutch cable, just on the screw by the clutch lever?

 Any thanks
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Mareng1 on June 14, 2019, 08:21:36 PM
Do a search for ‘neutral’ - there is quite an extensive thread on that very issue :028:
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: otrp on June 14, 2019, 10:20:08 PM
*Originally Posted by norskman [+]
My bike has just done 2200. Its a late 2018 model with blipper.

Now I cant find Neutral and first is difficult.

I guess the clutch cable has stretched, but after only 2200 miles??

H/ow do I adjust the  clutch cable, just on the screw by the clutch lever?

 Any thanks

I've had this same issue on a couple of bikes. A simple turn or so (the nut by the clutch lever) should do the trick.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Speedy on June 18, 2019, 01:14:01 PM
Same issue here.  I've removed as much slack as I can from the cable and it's better, but not how it should be.

I've added it to the list of things that need checking if I ever take the bike in for warranty work.... 
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Bree on June 18, 2019, 02:00:56 PM
I keep mine adjusted so when cold there's hardly any adjustment at the lever. As soon at it warms up then the correct adjustment is at the lever. Never had any problem getting first gear since I followed this advice from this forum.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Mibridger on June 18, 2019, 02:03:47 PM
I find that you need to adjust the clutch when the engine is cold as they have a tendency for the lever to move more when the engine is hot

This is the same on both the RR and the XR.

I always adjust mine to have almost no movement at the lever when cold which equates to about 2-3mm when hot.

Yes, just use the adjuster at the clutch lever.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: orbits on June 18, 2019, 04:12:40 PM
Quite a timely thread as I’ve just changed levers and noted Neutral is a bit harder to find. I adjusted the new levers to give similar free play as the OEM ones but think I’ll try Mibridger’s approach of almost none when cold.

Suspect there’s just more cable movement needed to fully disengage the clutch. Aftermarket levers have reduced the span so I don’t need Gruffalo-hands :028: like the OEM levers, but as a result they’ve reduced the cable movement so now I need to rob a bit back from the free play.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: wilbert on June 19, 2019, 08:10:28 PM
I have been having difficulty finding neutral and some issues with the QS. During the 6000 mile service it was noted that there was quite a bit of clutch drag. They have had the bike in the workshop for 2 days now and I am non the wiser to what the final outcome may be. I'm guessing new parts.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Speedy on June 19, 2019, 08:37:53 PM
Could it be that BMW did not do an adjustable clutch lever for this very reason?  Maybe they knew there was an issue with the cable stretching and wanted to keep a long pull.  Otherwise, why do you not include an adjustable lever to match the adjustable brake lever - it can't be more than a few dollars difference on the assembly line of a $20k bike.

Seems odd....

Is it only those of us with aftermarket adjustable levers that are having the problem?  Next time I ride I'll move mine out to the furthest setting and see if it makes a difference.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Bree on June 19, 2019, 09:08:52 PM
*Originally Posted by Speedy [+]
Could it be that BMW did not do an adjustable clutch lever for this very reason?  Maybe they knew there was an issue with the cable stretching and wanted to keep a long pull.  Otherwise, why do you not include an adjustable lever to match the adjustable brake lever - it can't be more than a few dollars difference on the assembly line of a $20k bike.

Seems odd....

Is it only those of us with aftermarket adjustable levers that are having the problem?  Next time I ride I'll move mine out to the furthest setting and see if it makes a difference.


I do not think it has anything to do with the cable stretching. Its all to do with heat when the clutch is cold there is less play, so if you have play in the lever when cold, as soon as the clutch heats up that play gets bigger. So when you apply the lever to get into neutral the clutch is not fully engaged. Hence the difficulty in engaging neutral.
The tried and tested way is to reduce the lever play at cold to near zero. This then puts it at the accepted gap when the clutch is hot. I have adjustable levers and they work okay using this method....
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Westers151 on June 21, 2019, 09:31:57 PM
New here as I've just got one, and also had some issues with neutral. It was fine until I put adjustable levers on, and to put those on I had to slacken the clutch lever.

When you say little slack at cold, do you mean no cable movement, or no movement of the actuation arm on the engine? It takes a while before the actuation arm moves, even though the cable has moved.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Bree on June 21, 2019, 09:40:20 PM
*Originally Posted by Westers151 [+]
New here as I've just got one, and also had some issues with neutral. It was fine until I put adjustable levers on, and to put those on I had to slacken the clutch lever.

When you say little slack at cold, do you mean no cable movement, or no movement of the actuation arm on the engine? It takes a while before the actuation arm moves, even though the cable has moved.


Yes I mean no movement on the lever.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Westers151 on June 21, 2019, 09:48:05 PM
Sorry, just read your post again and saw the part about lever play. Must try harder 😀

Next question, I find I have to wind the clutch adjuster quite a way, out, so much so it has a lot of thread showing. That doesn't look right to me, or is it?
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Bree on June 21, 2019, 09:50:50 PM
I will have to check on that I will measure the distance tomorrow and let you know.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Westers151 on June 21, 2019, 09:58:00 PM
Thanks, very much appreciated
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Bree on June 22, 2019, 10:39:29 AM
Had a look at mine, I have about 12 ml of thread showing, on the adjuster but thinking about that it is not really a guide to go by, as it would depend on the adjustment at the actuation arm. If you are unhappy with the adjustment screw being to far out. Then if you slacken it right off at the lever end then take up some of the slack at the actuator end, that will shorten the adjustment at the lever end.  Whew hope that makes sense.  :002:
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: smithy on June 22, 2019, 10:50:48 AM
*Originally Posted by Westers151 [+]
Sorry, just read your post again and saw the part about lever play. Must try harder 😀

Next question, I find I have to wind the clutch adjuster quite a way, out, so much so it has a lot of thread showing. That doesn't look right to me, or is it?

Adjust the cable at the bottom end, it's difficult but doable.

Smithy.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Westers151 on June 22, 2019, 04:46:50 PM
Thanks all, will have a play around and find a happy medium.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: TartanX on July 14, 2019, 10:32:35 PM
Hi folks,
Looks like my clutch cable adjustment is at it furthest setting. Question is can you adjust at clutch end without removing fuel tank ?
Cheers
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: smithy on July 15, 2019, 04:47:28 AM
*Originally Posted by TartanX [+]
Hi folks,
Looks like my clutch cable adjustment is at it furthest setting. Question is can you adjust at clutch end without removing fuel tank ? Cheers

Yes, but it's quite difficult, I had to "make my own" tool, to undo the lock nuts....but it is doable.

Smithy.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: TartanX on July 15, 2019, 05:30:42 AM
*Originally Posted by smithy [+]
Yes, but it's quite difficult, I had to "make my own" tool, to undo the lock nuts....but it is doable.

Smithy.
Thanks Smithy.i will give it a go. Any chance of a photo if you had a spare minute , much appreciated  :028:
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: smithy on July 16, 2019, 12:37:23 AM
*Originally Posted by TartanX [+]
Thanks Smithy.i will give it a go. Any chance of a photo if you had a spare minute , much appreciated  :028:

It's just a bent spanner to be honest, pretty simple. I'm working away from home ATM so won't be able to take a pic for some time.

Smithy.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: TartanX on July 16, 2019, 09:03:15 PM
Yep no worries Smithy , was just curious to see how you’d bent it like Yuri Geller  :001:
It does look bloody awkward , I can see the air turning blue before I’m finished  :034:
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: smithy on July 16, 2019, 11:42:35 PM
*Originally Posted by TartanX [+]
Yep no worries Smithy , was just curious to see how you’d bent it like Yuri Geller  :001:
It does look bloody awkward , I can see the air turning blue before I’m finished  :034:

Yep, Yuri Geller for sure....but didn't he just bend spoons..?? He was found out to be a fake in the end I think... :112:

The bend is very close to the end of the open end bit, otherwise you can't get it in there.!!

Smithy.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: PaulS1000XR on July 17, 2019, 03:13:32 PM
Just get the dealer to look at it. No problem finding neutral on my XR's and I have had 3  :305:
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: smithy on July 18, 2019, 01:10:35 AM
*Originally Posted by PaulS1000XR [+]
Just get the dealer to look at it. No problem finding neutral on my XR's and I have had 3  :305:

Likewise here, I don't have a problem finding the "un-gear".. :152:

Smithy.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Westers151 on July 23, 2019, 09:37:11 PM
If you chuck aftermarket clutch levers on it, and didn't take any notice of how it was adjusted in the first place ('cos no bike I've ever owned before has been such a fussy bitch like this one), then having issues with neutral is more than likely.

I've resolved mine now, although my idea of free play and BMW's idea of free play is totally different. Basically, wind the bar end adjuster out about the 10 -12 mm, and you should be fine. What you're looking for is for the clutch actuator arm to move pretty much as soon as you even slightly pull on the clutch.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: smithy on July 23, 2019, 09:46:53 PM
*Originally Posted by Westers151 [+]
If you chuck aftermarket clutch levers on it, and didn't take any notice of how it was adjusted in the first place ('cos no bike I've ever owned before has been such a fussy bitch like this one), then having issues with neutral is more than likely.

I've resolved mine now, although my idea of free play and BMW's idea of free play is totally different. Basically, wind the bar end adjuster out about the 10 -12 mm, and you should be fine. What you're looking for is for the clutch actuator arm to move pretty much as soon as you even slightly pull on the clutch.

Just keep it simple...No matter what levers are fitted, 1mm of clutch lever free-play should see most people out of trouble.

Smithy.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Bree on July 23, 2019, 10:04:36 PM
*Originally Posted by smithy [+]
Just keep it simple...No matter what levers are fitted, 1mm of clutch lever free-play should see most people out of trouble.

Smithy.



Been said many many times now But   :0461:
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Westers151 on July 25, 2019, 06:43:33 PM
Yes, but what you've all said, many, many times is "1mm of clutch-lever free play is all you need", rather than "1mm of clutch-lever free play before the clutch actuation arm moves".

There's a massive difference between the two, and a massive difference from being able to find neutral, and not being able to find neutral.

What's obvious to you, when you write, isn't always obvious to others who aren't as close to the problem/solution as you are  :002:
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Bree on July 25, 2019, 10:18:22 PM
I am certain that 1mm of play at the lever end, is what is required. That will directly be in relation to the clutch actuator arm. But in any case the simple equation is as stated 1mm of play at the lever end normally solves the problem.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: jfnz on July 26, 2019, 12:12:20 AM
Not massively helpful, but definitely agreed on the fact you need to wind the clutch quite tight and minimise the amount of free play.

I had mine set as per the spec in the owners manual and didn't have issues with it -- after first service, the shop had adjusted this so it left the lever in a nicer position to grab, but with significantly more play. I've had trouble finding neutral since, anything but the slightest tap will hit second instead of neutral even with the clutch all the way in.

As an aside, I'm still finding I have a lot of false neturals. Mainly in the upward direction (1 -> 2) but also sometimes on the way back down (2 -> 1) with both the clutch and the quickshift. Maybe I'm just not rough enough on the lever? Who knows.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Westers151 on July 27, 2019, 09:13:56 PM
Hmm, I've not had false neutrals, however I did have the "1st to 2nd, and then back down for neutral" syndrome, which has largely gone away now I've adjusted the free play.

As other have said, it's 1mm or less free play at the clutch lever, however what that really means is "1mm before the clutch actuator arm at the engine case starts to move." Initially I was looking for "free play" at the clutch lever before the clutch cable moved, as that's what I consider to be free play. However, that's not the case, and it's 1mm of free play before the actuation arm moves.

:)
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: jfnz on July 28, 2019, 07:22:24 AM
Another adjustment that seems to help is chain tension. Mine was adjusted at first service by the dealer tech to just over 55mm -- that was 5mm more than the spec (45-50mm). I tightened it up to the other end of the spectrum (a hair under 45mm) and the shifts seem way better now.

I only ever ride 1 up, no luggage so not overly concerned about it being on the tighter end of the scale.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: runnerhiker on August 23, 2019, 05:22:48 AM
I have a new 2019 XR, one week old, with 350 miles on it.  Neutral is hard to find.  The clutch lever is very far away from the hand grip.  I have a hard time finding neutral as I slowly come to a stop.  I have a hard time finding neutral once I have come to a complete stop.  And I am pulling the lever all the way in to touch the hand grip.  If I am in 1st, it will jump to 2nd.  If I am in 2nd, it will jump to 1st.

The 600 mile service is scheduled for next week, I will tell them to look at it.  But it surprises me that it is acting this way.
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Bree on August 23, 2019, 08:51:31 AM
Plenty of previous threads on here about this problem. Its easily solved by reducing the freeplay on the clutch lever. It wants to be reduced when cold to 5mm or less, to compensate for when the bike warms up......
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: SimonUK on August 23, 2019, 11:58:27 AM
*Originally Posted by Bree [+]
Plenty of previous threads on here about this problem. Its easily solved by reducing the freeplay on the clutch lever. It wants to be reduced when cold to 5mm or less, to compensate for when the bike warms up......

surely you mean 1mm or less??
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: Bree on August 23, 2019, 12:11:42 PM
Ha Ha surely you are correct typo error on my part.... :164:.......:041:
Title: Re: Cant find Neutral
Post by: runnerhiker on August 24, 2019, 04:11:50 AM
I rode about 70 miles today and finding neutral was a lot easier.  I have no explanation for this.  But I can confirm that the clutch lever freeplay is about 1mm when cold and about 4 or 5 mm when hot.